Hear hear.
As per the previous rant in last week's topic on similar lines, the problem is that in order to justify going to work, parents need a job of approximately £25k to make it worth their while, and that doesn't take into account the babysitter's fees for while they're in the office.

£25k jobs tend to command a certain degree of expertise or at least experience.

So ... in short - ain't gonna happen.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 12:32, 2 replies)

Tell me about it
I get caned because my ex buggered off with my kids after my house caught fire - apparently the stress was all too much for her, so she decided to just jump ship. So, nearly 500 quid a month goes to her to spunk up the wall on new sofas and a f*cking great big telly (I kid you not, I know it's a bit DMish, but it is the truth).

I earn a fair bit more than the 25k needed, yet still, after rent, c/tax, petrol, gas, leccy etc... I'm skint a week after pay day.

I needed a dentist quite urgently at the start of the year - massive pain, coulnd't concentrate on anything. Went to the dentist to be told I need to pay 199 quid to have it done.

Had to wait for 6 months in f****g agony before I could get the 200 quid together.

If I'd banged out a couple of sprogs, or was carrying one in my benefit pouch, then I'd have got that for free, despite the fact that I'm paying into it through NI already.

Because I was working, I had to endure 6 months agony, and then borrow dosh to get to work for the rest of that month.

Something is not quite right here.
(dchurch bah, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 12:43, closed)

Bollocks,
My mate is married with three kids. He earns £17k or so, his wife has a part-time job, but it doesn't pay a lot. He gets £47 per week on child benefit which is not means tested. They also get about £160 per week in working tax credits and child tax credits. They'll lose a hefty portion of this when his kids leave full time education but on the whole the government will make sure that families are looked after for not being dole scum.

Huzzah for socialism
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 12:58, closed)

What would they get JSA, child benefit, council tax, rent, medical and dental bills if both were unemployed?
I'll wager it wuold work out as more than £17k.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 13:03, closed)

dchurch above says he earns well over £25k and is skint
I don't know what his definition of skint is, but if he was on the dole and lived on his own he'd be on the bones of his arse. He might not have to pay rent or council tax and he wouldn't have to fork out £500 a month. But he would have to move into a council flat to qualify for full housing benefit. A private landlord would mean he would have to top up the rent out of his own pocket. The CSA would still take a fiver out of his benefits.

That would leave him with £60. If a partner moved in, he would be £30 a week better off.
So, £90 a week to pay bills and buy food. If they have a child, they are a fair bit better off but then you're having to pay for a child. That means no fags or booze, a shopping list of Smart Price stuff, or more likely Nettos, no holidays and public transport only. I've been in that situation years ago. It's fucking grim.

But the claim that you're worse off working than being on the dole smells of the countryside frankly as people don't compare like for like.
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:33, closed)

but then
I wouldn't need a car, so would be 200 quid better off by not having to buy petrol, car tax, and insurance.

CS - 500
RENT - 900
CTAX - 200
ELEC - 40
GAS - 80
PETROL - 200


There's 1920, without even thinking about food or water bills (can't remember how much that one is).

If I wasn't working we could knock the best part of 1600 quid off that.

This is calcluated of course, before fags and booze.

I too have been on the dole - for 19 months to be exact, wasn't much fun I grant you, but on the whole, I'm not really a whole lot better off now than I was then, and that was before all the child-tax-credit stuff and everything else you can, supposedly, get now, like free dentists. That was 200 quid I couldn't afford to give out, so just put up with the agony for 6 months. Then of course there's things like crisis loans for when you washing machine packs up. Mine has packed up, I've got no choice but to wash stuff in the sink now. I don't qualify for a 'crisis' loan.

I still had to pay full price for prescriptions for penicillin prescribed by the dentist as well. All these things add up. If I'm ill I can't go to the docs, as the prescription charge I won't have - depending on when in the month it is. I could choose to only get ill on payday I suppose.

I can only wish for 240 quid a month to spend on food.
(dchurch bah, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:45, closed)

How the hell do you spend £200 a month on petrol?

(Nanny Pat vote for me, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:09, closed)

by
driving to work and back.
(dchurch bah, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:11, closed)

Do you work at the other end of the country?
Or drive a ferrari?
(Nanny Pat vote for me, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:14, closed)

1200 miles per month.
Roughly 8 quid a day.
So about 150 quid, assuming I can go the shortest distance, which I haven't been able to do due to a road collapsing (well, looks more like the moon than a road, so have had to increase my journey by about 2 miles per day - I rounded this up, so guessed at about 200 quid, which isn't far out, plus I have to drive to pick up my kids (as, of course, it would be too much to ask that this driving be shared between my ex and I). That probably adds an extra 50 quid a month.
(dchurch bah, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:20, closed)

Has
anyone seen the price of pertrol recently, loads of people pay £200 a month. If I drove to work it would cost me about that, so i get the train, which is about £15 less a week
(bROKEN aRROW PUA HVI Master, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:50, closed)

I would
get the train too.

Sadly, getting the train requires a 10 mile bus journey (in the direction AWAY from where I work), to catch another bus at the bus station to the railway station, then a 2 mile walk at the other end.

It works out about the same financially.
(dchurch bah, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 17:09, closed)

That's not too bad,
It used to be 240-250 for me. I know others who drive even further!
( Blind Meach Cautiously optimistic, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:23, closed)

That's what I thought
The job I was in before was double that.

I thought I was doing well by getting a slight pay rise to go to a job closer to home.
(dchurch bah, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:27, closed)

A guy I went to college with lives just outside of Sedgefield
and drives to Scarborough each day. 75 miles each way. He very soon bought a dual-fuel car and saved a fair packet.
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:29, closed)

There's
no way on Earth I could afford to buy a new (or nearly new) car like that.
I struggled to get my car through it's last MOT with the help of a mechanic friend, desperatly crossing my fingers that I could squeeze another year out of the old bird.
(dchurch bah, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:32, closed)

It wasn't new
It was an Exchange & Mart job or eBay or some such. Bit of a Sally Gunnell.
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:59, closed)

A
Hybryd would surely cost more than I could sell mine for - which would be around 500 quid, if I cleaned it up a little.
(dchurch bah, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 17:10, closed)

Sounds like it's worth more than mine
6 months' tax and a full tank doubles the value. It's in for it's MOT this week, I'm dreading it.
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 17:55, closed)

what about petrol for driving other places instead of work?
shops, visiting friends and family etc?

I bet £900pcm for rent gets you a pretty swanky place. If you were that bothered about being skint, you'd find somewhere a damn sight cheaper. That would also save you a load on the council tax.

You're not just fiscally worse off on benefits, your quality of life goes down the pan.
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:22, closed)

I'll take
that bet.

It's certainly not swanky. There's no double glazing, the carpet is threadbare, and there's no garden. At all. The kitchen and bathroom are Lime Green and straight from the 60's - which is when they were both installed. We can't take too long a shower as the water comes through into the living room, the landlords plumber mate, of course can find nothing wrong.

I have looked about, and for around 800 quid I could get a 2 bed terraced place. Of course, that would mean my two children sharing, which very soon (within the next 2 years) would become illegal - due to their ages travelling only in one direction; so by law, very soon I would need to find a 3 bed place, and I'd be looking at around 900 quid again, plus I'd have the crap of the upheaval that goes with moving, twice.

I could of course, move to Wales where I believe propertly prices and associated rents are a lot cheaper, but I think the extra in travel to work and back would negate any saving.

Indeed, I do also drive to pick up my kids. That would add about 50 quid to the (g)estimated 200 quid a month.
(dchurch bah, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:26, closed)

Nah, I'm not buying it.
Someone who took the banks on and won does not pay £900 pcm to live in a shabby house with no double glazing and knackered plumbing.

Unless you've found a gold seam under the kitchen floor that is.
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 16:06, closed)

I can
provide photographic evidence if it pleases.

If I didn't want knackered plumbing and no double glazing, I'd be paying a shed load more than 900 quid a month.

All taking on the banks did for me, was get my own money back - in total about 2.5k - around 5 years ago now.

Not really enough to live the rock-star lifestyle on, I'm sure you will agree.
(dchurch bah, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 16:52, closed)

Yet you've never
taken the landlord to account over this? His neglect to repair the leaky shower sounds like a breach of Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 Section 11.(1)(b) and arguably Section 10. My mate Ray did the same with his landlord when he had a leaky roof. After threatening the landlord with a formal letter and quoting a bit of legislation adding that he can withhold the rent to pay for it himself if they don't get a move on, they had a roofer round in 24 hours.
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 17:46, closed)

Where do you live?

(Nanny Pat vote for me, Thu 3 Jun 2010, 0:31, closed)

I'm not buying it either.
This is the guy that doesn't have a bank account, and when asked about the lack of interest that the contents of his safe receives, said that he does such things as buys houses, guitars, items of value such as art etc for cash, then sells them later at a profit.

So, you can afford to buy and sell houses for cash, have a safe in your bedroom that always has thousands of pounds cash inside it, but you rent a shit tip house?

I detect the heady stench of bullshit. Either you've made up your current situation in a bizarre display of poverty tourism, or you've lied about your cash-filled safe, your vast income and pretty much your whole lifestyle.

All anyone who's curious about this peculiar state of affairs needs to do is peruse your profile and answers.
(dozers, do fuck off ur a nob m8, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 20:05, closed)

Not always.
Sometimes, if I've saved and/or sold something, then there will be a fair chunk of dosh in there.

...and I rarely sell things. The things I have bought were for investment, not quick profit.

Houses here are expensive, this is the best deal I could get.

I nearly had to go for a 4 bed place in the next village along - that would have meant just under 1500 quid a month.

I'm not claiming poverty, I'm merely answering the question, which was; Would I be better off not working - I think there's benefit to both. Not working would mean my outgoings would more than halve, and dental treatment etc... would be free.

Admittedly, at the start of the year when I had massive toothache, I did also have a massive tax bill to pay as well, rendering me unable to pay the 200 quid to get my teeth fixed, so I may have stretched the truth inadvertently by not putting that bit in.
(dchurch bah, Thu 3 Jun 2010, 7:48, closed)

So where do you live then?
Sounds like pretty steep house prices.
Even steeper than London in fact.....
(Nanny Pat vote for me, Thu 3 Jun 2010, 12:55, closed)

why would it be illegal?
I thought room sharing by family members was perfectly legal?
( ascorbate, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 18:11, closed)

Er, it's not illegal
For two or four or even twenty kids to share a room, whatever age and sex they are. All it means is if you were on housing benefit you'd get a higher rate for an extra bedroom requirement.

Interestingly the threshold for this is much lower than the threshold at which the council will admit you are overcrowded. The threshold for overcrowding has not changed since 1935, and counts living rooms and kitchens as well as bedrooms.

But even if you are considered to be legally overcrowded, there's not a lot they will do about it. They're not going to put you in jail for living in a small house, FGS.
(Marmite Omelette ...but I feel better having screamed, don't you?, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 22:27, closed)

I
was under the impression that a male and female could not sleep in the same room after the age of 12.
(dchurch bah, Thu 3 Jun 2010, 7:45, closed)

that's what I thought
I am pretty sure that I shared a room with my brother and sisters when I was over 12 - sometimes we still do share rooms when visiting family!
( ascorbate, Thu 3 Jun 2010, 9:35, closed)

Um ... if you're unemployed, I don't think your job seeker's allowance should cover luxuries like fags, booze, holidays or personal transport.
I'd be interested to see what the breakdown is of JSA, child benefit x 3, council tax, av medical and dental bills, and how it all works out.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:50, closed)

If you fancy doing some calculations
The entitledto website is pretty good at breaking down what you would and wouldn't get in any situation.
(Marmite Omelette ...but I feel better having screamed, don't you?, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 14:56, closed)

Not really.
My basic stance is that anyone on the dole should only really have food/transport stamps, rent, and a provision - perhaps stamps as well - for their children's needs.

Luxuries such as fags, booze, holidays should not come into the equation at all, so if they can afford them, then it had better be Christmas, or that they're celebrating having got a job.
( Je suis un vagabond is an unfunny, up your own arse middle class knob, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:06, closed)

I remember we used to go to the post office every fortnight
pay the bills with those prepay swipe card things for the gas, electric and water. We couldn't afford to have a phone. We'd then go to Kwik Save with what was left (about half) and get two weeks of shopping. Our treat was a 3-litre bottle of Coke and share a chicken korma from the local curry house every other week.
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Wed 2 Jun 2010, 15:11, closed)