Well if that's the case
then I don't think Freemasonry and I will ever be bedfellows.

It comes across like the broken reasoning used by some religious believers to defend morality in religious terms, i.e. one must have a religious belief before morality is possible in order to define good and evil; those pesky atheists, with no fear of eternal punishment or reward have no particular reason to do good (or evil too, we atheists equally argue). I won't get into that here though...

As an open-minded atheist, I'm at least as capable as a faith believer of translating and absorbing allegory/roleplay into my own well-considered definition of morality. I consider the aspects of all religions which encourage virtuous behaviour to be good and proper; even Scientology has its plus points in that respect. However, no religion is necessary in order for an individual to lead a good life based on the simple principle of 'treat others as you wish to be treated yourself'.

For the Freemasons to declare it unimportant which god you worship, but to also insist that you must have one is confusing and somewhat insulting to me, as a person who considers myself generally decent despite my godlessness. For example, I wonder what their position would be if I was to choose Mars as my deity, or Satan, or one of the Voodoo gods? I presume certain religions are unacceptable if they encourage behaviour which conflicts with Freemasonry itself.

Anyway, thanks for answering my question :)
( chart cat has an itch, Mon 31 Aug 2009, 13:21, 2 replies)

no problem fella, as I've said before, it's not for everyone
and let's be clear, I haven't knocked atheists in the slightest, and nor would I want to - and neither does masonry. It's not for everyone, but then again, nothing really is. :)
There's plenty of religious groups who knock masonry as there are atheists doing the same.
( The Great Architect is still waiting for his account to be deleted on, Mon 31 Aug 2009, 14:20, closed)

Belief and religion are not the same thing
Don't get belief mixed up with religion. One can believe without being ruled by a religious order. I hold my own personal belief system, not one imposed on me by someone, supposedly appointed by a deity. A religion requires that you have faith in what they tell you, or what they have written, Freemasonry requires that you question, study and learn, most particularly about the sciences, about arts and about yourself. It's one of the reasons religious orders have always had a problem with the craft, some of them prefer blind faith to free thought, it's better for purposes of control.

Oh, and as for your choice of deity as a supreme being, if you truly believed, for instance, in Satan as the top dog, fine, if you can square the morality of wanting to be in a society intended to help mankind, with your personal beliefs and not feel a hypocrite, you'd be welcome in our lodge. We'll never question someone's beliefs, only whether they are behaving as a good mason.
(lardyboy Next stop, Fissplap Central, Wed 2 Sep 2009, 10:53, closed)

Doesn't fly with me
Belief, religion. Call it what you want, the semantics are unimportant. The UGLE site states unambiguously that you must believe in a Supreme Being to be accepted. That's a God, not just a "personal belief system", although once again, labels are not the issue. I'm with emvee on this one, it just seems like an organisation with noble goals which is shackled by outdated rules and elitist mysticism.
( chart cat has an itch, Wed 2 Sep 2009, 15:54, closed)

Still can't see what the problem is
Apart from the fact that there is a massive difference between an organised religion and someone's own personal beliefs, I still can't see what the problem is. Are you this annoyed at the Pope for not letting you be a priest? You're excluded from a whole career structure there, for not believing in the holy trinity. That's shocking that is. Why would you be agrieved at not being able to do something that I'd hazard a guess that you woudn't really want to do anyway?
(lardyboy Next stop, Fissplap Central, Wed 2 Sep 2009, 16:30, closed)