Your mother abused her position of trust over the most vulnerable people in society. Does this man now think he owes the church something? Does he maintain contact with your mother or any of the other people that helped him? Did she consult with the official clean-up crew to see if this case could be expedited, or he could be put into care temporarily? Hell, did she even own up to what she did?

The religious make me sick.
( Ungersven would support SpankyHanky's patreon, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 19:54, 6 replies)

Grow a cock fuck face.
It's the fact this guy could have waited weeks in a hell hole and instead someone who cared motivated her family and friends to assist.
( The Mock Turtle ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 19:59, closed)

Cared enough to break the rules and put him in a potentially dangerous situation
No, sorry, if it was up to me she would have been fired and prosecuted. Again, does her employer know what she did? If it was a good deed then surely there's no problem relating this story?
( Ungersven would support SpankyHanky's patreon, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 20:15, closed)

Sometimes human nature needs to be taken account of instead of forms and regulations, this is the problem
with today's NHS.

Your problem with religion has no baring on something good that came out of something bad.
( The Mock Turtle ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 20:17, closed)

Well, it does
One of the reasons religions are so successful is that they teach charity to those less fortunate, I'd be astonished if the man in this story wasn't very grateful to the church and its adherents, and consequently more likely to listen to their wackier stuff.
( Ungersven would support SpankyHanky's patreon, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 20:30, closed)

Well it does not, because no matter your colour, faith or creed you can still be a nice person or do
a good deed, society does not care generally due to overload of the system and today unfotunately, it is all about quotas and making money to please the goverment.

Sometimes it takes a human being to make a choice when faced with a problem and to reflect and decide to do what is right. I do not disagree about religion but you have to takes things on an individual basis and in context.

In the same boat I would have done similar no matter if my friends were christian, muslim, hindu, pagan, zoroastanist, jew or satanist.

It would not have bothered me a jot what they were compared to my knowledge of their character.
( The Mock Turtle ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 20:56, closed)

Most church-types tend more towards the 'Kindly Mrs Smith of the awesome coffee-morning nibbles" than "bastard lovechild of Jim Jones and David Koresh".

Are you honestly suggesting that neighbourly kindness should be abandoned, and entirely replaced with state intervention? Because that would make you a cunt. You cunt.
( Happy Phantom has been to Hastings, Brighton, and Eastbourne too, Fri 3 Feb 2012, 0:21, closed)

No, not at all
I'm suggesting that the people administering the state intervention have no right to refuse to do their job and instead refer them to a church because it is their personal belief that the church would perform better.
( Ungersven would support SpankyHanky's patreon, Fri 3 Feb 2012, 2:02, closed)

You really need to get out more.

( The Mock Turtle ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Fri 3 Feb 2012, 10:22, closed)

Don't feed the troll
please.
(username failed moderation, Fri 3 Feb 2012, 13:12, closed)

Wow
You're a lovely warm loving human being, you cunt.
( His Popiness the Hole Invaded Poland on, Sat 4 Feb 2012, 19:40, closed)

You'd have fired and prosecuted?
By Christ on a glowing flagpole and all his radioactive saints, you're a monumental twat of a human being.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 22:42, closed)

What moobs said.
With big bad bally bells on.
( The Mock Turtle ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 22:52, closed)

And here, ladies and gents, we have the most self-centred and autistic post in this thread.

( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 20:18, closed)

Thank you.
Where is AB when you need him.
( The Mock Turtle ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 21:00, closed)

Mong

(nolongernuts, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 22:17, closed)

Let's see:

Breach of client confidentiality, check
Breach of client trust, check
Neglect of service responsibilities, check
Destruction of clinically significant evidence, check
No evidence of appropriate and truthful report of visit, check
No evidence of establishment of clinically indicated therapy program, check
No evidence of undertaking of referral to an appropriate service, check
Enabling local persons, with no evidence of appropriate checks or experience, to have intimate knowledge and prolonged access to a vulnerable persons home and possessions, check
No evidence of implied or explicit consent, check
Enabling public members with no apparent relation to the client to have partial knowledge of confidentially obtained information in regards to his state of health, homestate and hygiene, check

Total and utter breach of 'The Code of Ethics and Professional Conduct', the 'Standards of Conduct, Performance and Ethics', several confidentiality and information regulations, service level regulations and confidentialy agreements. Possibly also a breach of vulnerable person protections and reporting.

There's no evidence that she provided a true and proper report that could have been used as evidence to provide him with appropriate services (and continued help with ADLs to make sure he isn't merely in the same situation six months down the line), she destroyed the evidence of need and does not appear to have made a true and timely record of her visit, she does not appear to have signposted him on to appropriate services (and continued help), nor made a referral (which would have required an accurate home visit report as supporting evidence) to appropriate services, she's negated the volitional aspect of domestic ADLs by having someone else do it for him with him as a passive object, and she does not appear to have started an appropriate therapy program that would enable him (to do at least some of it himself).

Jaw droppingly bad professional reasoning, tantamount to wholesale professional misconduct and dereliction of duty of care. Did she even bother to see if there was any emergency care available? Expediated resolution? Anything?

I really hope that:

a, UPP's mum has retired, or
b, UPP's mum has moved away from the profession, or
c, UPP has left out significant chunks of the story, and that UPP's mum made all the right refferals, with proper evidence, or started an appropriate therapy program with the client.
d, she gets booted out of the profession and deregistered pronto.
(TheThinMan, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 23:21, closed)

well done, you massive hero
for your next trick, I suppose you'll be telling some terminally ill kids that Santa doesn't exist.
(square go, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 23:38, closed)

Why would I do that?

That's a silly and offensive suggestion that does not ethically or logically follow on from what I've just said.

If I'd said he shouldn't recieve any services or appropriate help at all, then it would be an appropriate response.
(TheThinMan, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 23:46, closed)

You are Mr. Logic
AICMFP
(square go, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 23:51, closed)

^ And what she said^

( The Mock Turtle ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Fri 3 Feb 2012, 10:22, closed)

Thanks for that TheThinMan, we value your input.

( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Thu 2 Feb 2012, 23:55, closed)

Thanks
These all sound like plausible technical terms for my "she's naughty".
( Ungersven would support SpankyHanky's patreon, Fri 3 Feb 2012, 1:58, closed)

Your understanding of ethics is pitiful.
It seems to amount to no more than "Did x follow the rules?", quite aside from any qualities of the actor or action per se.

Also, it's "programme".
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Fri 3 Feb 2012, 9:11, closed)

I indicated which particular professional ethical codes I was using.
If a person is in breach of the accepted code of ethics of both the national organisation representing thier chosen profession and the code of ethics of their regulatory body, then they are - if not by the very defintion of what 'professional ethics' are - commiting an unethical act.

That's a significantly different arguement to 'x didn't follow the rules, therefore x is unethical'. It's perfectly possible to not follow the rules and still be ethical. It's not possible to breach the ethical rules you signed up to and yet - somehow by some magical mystical method - be in complete abidance with them.

You could have argued that the COT and HPC codes are not representative of the general view of ethics and ethical behaviour amongst COT members or HPC registrants, but you didn't.

It disturbs me that people appear to find that:

providing true records that can be used as evidence of care needs; which could then be used as evidence to provide continued and appropriate therapy and support over the long term - provided by appropriately trained, qualified and regulated professional and paraprofessionals - and provding a true record of immediate housing and environmental distress,

is NOT preferred to:

apparently failing to make a true and accurate record of evidence of care needs, resulting in no-one else being aware of those care or housing needs, resulting in no long term improvement in the clients situation - whilst enabling two untrained, unregulated, ill equipped, inexperienced, unchecked members of the public prolonged and intimate access to a vulnerable persons home, in order for them to do a clean that should be done expertly.

I hope the story is missing the bit where the client received appropriate, continued and sufficient help. Otherwise, plenty of people here are agreeing it's better to help someone out once and then leave them to live in squalor again 3 months down the line, than it is to get them out of the house whilst it gets properly cleaned, whilst they get proper help so it doesn't (or shouldn't) happen again.

Again, I hope the story is missing bits and that UPP's mum did make properly evidenced referrals to appropriate services
(TheThinMan, Sat 4 Feb 2012, 17:15, closed)

Your first two paragraphs here demonstrate the problem.
You seem to be under the impression that "ethics" is reducible to "codes of ethics", or codes of professional ethics, or something like that, such that a departure from those codes is pro tanto an ethical failure.

What this account fails to accommodate is any way of asking whether those codes are themselves defensible, how they're to be interpreted, and whether there's scope for decent and admirable behaviour outside them. This last bit is particularly important.

Short version: if your idea of ethics goes no further than professional codes, you're a bit of a moral failure.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Mon 6 Feb 2012, 10:28, closed)

"Your first two paragraphs here demonstrate the problem.
You seem to be under the impression that "ethics" is reducible to "codes of ethics", or codes of professional ethics, or something like that, such that a departure from those codes is pro tanto an ethical failure."

If you agree that you should consider your professions 'code of ethics' to at be at least a subset of your ethics in relation to all actions taken whilst acting under - or subsequent to - your professional role (and not just your job role), then you agree that you should abide by those ethics in order to practise ethically. That is, you agree that, such and such a code constitutes 'ethics' (or part of), therefor, a breach of the same is tantamount to a breach of your own accepted ethics.

"whether there's scope for decent and admirable behaviour outside them. This last bit is particularly important."

Indeed, it is. It's also important to note whether there's scope for decent and admirable behaviour whilst still acting within them. UPP's mum was not presented as having made any realistic effort to have seen whether this was the case, nor was she presented as having made a true and accurate record of evidence of need, nor was she presented as having taken appropriate action with a long term effect. In short, she was presented as having blindly taken the short term option, simply out of personal indignation.

None of the replies I've received thus far have contained any glimmer of recognition or concern for the missing story elements that would have indicated that fully ethical, long term effective, legal and professional behaviour was taking place.

It seems to be a case of cheering on a pron story and, inadvertantly, cheering on the violition of safegaurds and protections that are put in place precisely to protect the inherent vulnerabilites of all clients that come under professional care.

If all you've managed to glean from my posts is that I'm supposedly some sort of dogged rule botherer, rather than why I'm concerned those rules were broken in terms of the potential impact on the client and what it means for UPPs mums wider practise, then I doubt further correspondance with you will benefit either of us.
(TheThinMan, Mon 6 Feb 2012, 19:03, closed)

correspondEnce
Also: HA HA VIRGIN
(square go, Mon 6 Feb 2012, 19:39, closed)

Thank you,
I'm aware of a number of OTs with dyslexia who would be very grateful if you were to extend your kind offer of free spelling police services to them.
(TheThinMan, Mon 6 Feb 2012, 21:07, closed)

Do you live under a bridge or in supported housing?
I honestly can't decide.
(square go, Mon 6 Feb 2012, 21:31, closed)

Well,
"If you agree..." But I don't agree. Codes of professional ethics are at most - not at least - a subset of ethics in abstracto. (The only time professional ethicist advert to codes of professional ethics is when they're pointing and laughing at the inadequacy of said codes.) And the idea that you're breaching your own accepted ethics is very puzzling indeed, given that it's hard to imagine anyone acting in any way except that they think it is right in its own terms, or good, or justified.

As for the other stuff, it looks like your complaint is at least as much about the OP's telling of the story - that he didn't include every single administrative detail - as about the actual content. For the record, the content was (as far as I can tell) that a person did something supererogatory for someone else. We don't know about the other stuff - but we don't need to, you utter dullard.

Having said all this, I'm tempted to agree with the final twelve words of your post.
( Enzyme is powered by sunlight, Mon 6 Feb 2012, 20:00, closed)

Judging by the quality of your reply, and the misrepresentation of my arguement made there-in, I would have to declare that my last 12 words were entirely correct.

See you.
(TheThinMan, Mon 6 Feb 2012, 20:37, closed)

I lack the words
to truly express my love for this post.
( monster munch person, man, woman... camera... TV?, Fri 3 Feb 2012, 11:47, closed)

Gotta love these
armchair lawyers.

Your argument is rubbish, fuck off.
(username failed moderation, Fri 3 Feb 2012, 13:16, closed)

But it's really well written (i.e. 400 words long)!!!

( The Mock TurtIe ™ --- Thinks you are a cunt, on, Fri 3 Feb 2012, 22:27, closed)

I didn't even notice the church reference on first reading
And I had trouble spotting it when I went back to check. I think the verdict is that it is you that has the problem, not the OP or his mum.

I'm not saying religion can't sometimes be a bit silly, but the reality of Christians in Britain is that the vast majority are jolly nice people, whether or not you believe in their zombie messiah.
(Eukanuba, Fri 3 Feb 2012, 9:05, closed)

This is either the finest piece of trolling ever seen, or the work of a massive autist.

( Amorous Badger NAKED BEA ARTHUR PHOTOS 4U, Sat 4 Feb 2012, 1:54, closed)