You. Yes, You.
And me too. All of us. Everyone. We are all spoiled. Anyone who drives 5 miles to work instead of cycling. Anyone who fancies a BMW X5. Anyone who thinks that shopping is somehow recreational. Anyone who throws things away, even though they work fine, just because its getting a bit tatty and anyone who likes to "have nice things".
The economy is in crisis and the price of fuel has gone into orbit but only today did I see a rich idiot in her 250bhp Range Rover driving to Morrisons with her skriking ginger retarded spawn tied into the back seat. I say, If you can't carry it home, you don't need it. If you walk the streets of a town you get to know its occupants. Say good morning to people. Smile. Talk. Social Cohesion, anybody? No, I have to be supercilious with my huge ridiculous car, sorry. Wnakers.
My Grandmother lived through the war. They didn't even have bananas. Butter was rationed. Butter! But they all kept a stiff upper lip and kept their spirits high because to do otherwise was un-British.
People these days are spoiled and they don't know the half of it.
(Snake (on a) Crane FKA thwack, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 15:05, 53 replies)

So
you don't like ginger people?
(Juan Quar is clinging to her front teeth on, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 15:21, closed)

no no no
that was an adjective and not a value judgement. I'm not gingerist overall
(Snake (on a) Crane FKA thwack, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 17:22, closed)

You do know..
That they have no souls..? right?
(ShitBitch, Mon 13 Oct 2008, 9:33, closed)

You have a computer, electricity, a roof over your head, internets....
... when there are starving people in Africa.

Grow up, there are always people who are better off than you, and people who are worst off than you.
( G/PP 💩💩💩💩💩&#128, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 15:25, closed)

Ha!
You are Tyler Durden and I claim my £5.
(powervator and NONE SHALL PASS, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 15:25, closed)

I half-agree
I don't think there is fundamentally anything wrong in having "nice things", and in essence a lot of the development in technology (and, generally in other areas) is fueled by the desire for cheaper, faster, more efficent, etc.

Having said that, I agree with your point, there is no point in wanting more and better just for the sake that it is more or better.
(zero.coke, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 15:26, closed)

Oh go crawl out of your sock and go to your job down the mine
You ridiculous left wing thingmy
( Rubymurray is disdainful of your hateful, ill-formed opinions, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 15:31, closed)

Bah
You've made my eyes and head bored.
(LongTomBadTom Does Makes Says Thinks, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 15:48, closed)

He's got a point,
Even if it is verging on a slightly rose-tinted "good-old-days" version of things.

The valid point is that, yes, the Range Rover is unnecessary. And throwing things away just because they're a bit tatty - we are incredibly wasteful, and that does get my back up. I don't quite know why, but I do get quite tetchy when I see people throwing away perfectly good food simply because it's 5 minutes past its best-before-date*.

I'm not trying to sound sanctimonious...nor am I trying to say we're spoiled... I just think we could try not to throw so much stuff away.

*_{And yes, I am well aware of the need for these things on, e.g., raw meat, seafood, etc., but that block of cheese or that pre-prepared curry is hardly going to sprout salmonella overnight, is it?}
(LongJohnBaldry, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 15:52, closed)

.
Yes! At the stroke of midnight as it waves a sad cheerio to it's use-by date.

... Dong.... Dong... Dong... "That's it, I'm off."

Blimey.
(Chickenwire social lubricator extraordinaire, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 15:58, closed)

How do you know
the Range Rover is unecessary? Okay, so 80% of them probably are. But, for example, a guy at work has a Range Rover. Always totally clarted in mud. Wrecked his wife's Fiesta within weeks of moving to wherever he lives. So he clearly needs a 4x4, and could afford the 'rover without any serious effort on his wallet's part.

Bigger cars are also good for longer journeys- you try doing a 500 mile trip in a Fiesta and then do the homeward-bound trip in a BMW 5-series. Which is more suited for the task?

And "if you can't carry it home you don't need it"? You ever tried walking 3 miles home from the nearest Tesco carrying a microwave? Or gas oven? Or even a 24-pack of beer (seriously, it's necessary some times)?

Using the third world as a guide to what you "need" or "don't need" is a mistake- they don't have everything they need. Hence the death, war and so on.
( uberdeity Wondered why Owen Lars knew of the term "hell" on, Mon 13 Oct 2008, 9:59, closed)

But But But
I end up buying the slightly used, and now incredibly cheap stuff off ebay and the free-ads, and using it till it falls apart.

Do I feel ashamed profiting off other peoples wastefulness and stupidity.

One answer: No
(Sir Tainley Barking Ezekiel 23:20, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 16:43, closed)

While I agree with your overall point...
The fact remains that (normally) every generation has it better than the last simply because the work of the generation before has been to improve the quality of life for the next.
"People these days are spoiled and they don't know the half of it." - and the people before them would think "fuck me, look how long they're living!" and so on and so forth.

But yes, people in 4x4s should by and large fuck the fuck off.
But what has that got to do with social cohesion? We're spoiled because we don't necessarily want to talk to randoms on the street.
(tweebianmonkey Should be known as Widget, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 17:07, closed)

You're massively wrong on so many levels
a) the economic crisis is partly happening because people AREN'T spending; there isn't enough cash circulating because idiots are panicking and withdrawing their savings from banks. If you want to help the economy, go out and spend, like the Range Rover lady.

b) Capitalist societies are based on growth, which means greed, or the desire for more. If you don't like it, go join a Socialist commune, if you can find one.

c) The historical argument is ridiculous, as more and more people every single day enjoy clean available water, warmth, food, healthcare and accomodation. That's not being spoilt, that's an achievement of mankind, and whining that others don't have it doesn't help at all, you arrogant self-righteous prick.

If you want to be on the high horse, you'd better learn how to ride it.
( Grrrmachine the indifference engine, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 17:24, closed)

Steady on
There's a world of difference between "must have food/shelter/clean water" and "must have latest ipod/trainers/girls aloud wank-a-day calendar"
(pattybutty and chips, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 17:40, closed)

They make
a wank-a-day calander?

I'll have to remember that one for a potential gift for a boyfriend type thing.
( flirting with badgers What? It sounded good at the time., Mon 13 Oct 2008, 23:53, closed)

I thought he said
Wac-a-day
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Tue 14 Oct 2008, 10:19, closed)

oh
and don't call me a prick. You prick
(Snake (on a) Crane FKA thwack, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 17:51, closed)

Aren't you a little short for your high horse?

( jim_bob can herd cats., Sun 12 Oct 2008, 20:37, closed)

We are all too wasteful at the moment...
...so maybe it's worth applying the following checks when confronted with something you "must have":

1) do you need it?

2) do you REALLY need it?

3) wouldn't you rather put up with the old model and spend the money on beer?

And if we can run breweries sustainably, there will be no eco-impact after investing all our cash in booze. Everyone's a winner!
(pattybutty and chips, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 17:31, closed)

This^
This is the exact rule by which I live my life. My appartment is practically empty (apart from all the empty beer cans on my balcony) and I think the world would be a b3tarer place if we all followed this simple checklist.
(Bifta, Tue 14 Oct 2008, 4:22, closed)

notice
That I include myself!. I'm not purporting to be better than anyone, oh and granted, I know nothing about economics. I think I may have used a few bad examples, and I'd like to put it straight if I may.
I just think people expect too much in the way of material goods. I dont blame people largely, I don't even know who is at fault but the point at which it goes wrong for me is mass marketing. People are told, by an intangible, supposedly benign, nanny figure, that they should want this or that, and come to expect that they can have this or that, and that's when they become spoiled. I must point out at this point that my material goods wishlist at this point includes that lovely double-cutaway Gibson Les Paul I've seen, a Ducati 1098, a Mazda MX-5 and a DAB. None of which are necessary, I just want them because I do. I dont mean to paint myself better than anyone else in this one, I'm possibly one of the worse offenders, and probably don't even hate the Range Rover driver; I'm probably just jealous of her success. At the end of the day we all exercise personal choice and it's not for me to criticise. (Damn I just had to wiki "criticise" for the spelling. Damn) I'm sorry If I've bored anyone. I'm always going to be frugal though, it was just the way I was raised. Waste and profligate behaviour offends me. Damn I've bored myself now. Bye
(Snake (on a) Crane FKA thwack, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 17:50, closed)

Don't waste your time with the Les Paul
get something with a thinner neck. You'll thank me in the long run.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 22:34, closed)

Like, say
a ferret?
(Geekoid I am Meat. Lick me., Mon 13 Oct 2008, 6:18, closed)

xD
yes yes
(ShitBitch, Mon 13 Oct 2008, 9:37, closed)

pah
and your grandmother was spoilt because she had running water and functioning sanitation.

She was allowed to vote

Had a good chance of seeing her 75th birthday

Was confident that her kids would would see their 5th birthday

Had a proper education. etc etc etc

Compared to her grandmother, she was spoilt rotten.
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 18:08, closed)

Fuel price in orbit?
get a grip .. its plummeted recently ... now would be a real good time to buy a cheap old multi-litre car while prices are low and fuel is affordable. enjoy it while it lasts :)
(flipper is going to die in a bizarre gardenning accident, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 18:14, closed)

Plummeted
Plummeted to still being over a quid a litre.
( sandettie light vessel automatic New Twitter - @bollocksreally, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 18:27, closed)

gone down 10p
in the last two months.

then again, it went up 20p in the few months before that
(annhialus hasn't had an accident since, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 19:18, closed)

Bananas
are shit... and you shouldn't eat a whole tub of butter!
( hygor gyrates with animatronic emptyness, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 18:22, closed)

I'm not spoiled... and it's shit
I cycle to work, not to be fit or save the world but because it's cheaper. At the weekend, I carry my week's shopping 40 mins uphill in a backpack because there's no bus and I'm not paying for a taxi.

Think I'm better off for it?

I'd take a Range Rover in an instant.
(frankspencer, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 19:05, closed)

ah fuck off
you self righteous, mung bean snorting, knit your own shoes, smug faced cuntbubble.

"My Grandmother lived through the war. They didn't even have bananas." Its halfwits like you that keep the daily mail in business.

"stiff upper lip - don't know the half of it"

you sound like a fucking reject from dads army

away and recycle some of yer pish

tosser
( spimf ™ is whoever you want him to be, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 20:14, closed)

I'm writing this on Sunday evening ...
give it til, ooh, a week today when money stops working* and butter rationing will be the least of our problems ...


* may be conjectural
( writerblock ... embedding disabled by request on, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 20:15, closed)

Umm
You know the difference between relative and absolute poverty right? Well in Britain at the moment there is a massive gap between the superich and the relatively impoverished. Money and material possesions actualy have very little to do with wether you are spoilt or not anyway. And as for rationing? We may not have rationing at the moment but there's plenty of families in this supposedly developed country too poor to afford decent food. Hell, I remember growing up missing the occasional day's dinner, and there where families poorer than mine. Anyway, I ramble on, but my point is mostly that you cannot compare one society to another (IE post war Britain to contempory Britain) because the levels of average wealth are so different.
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 20:42, closed)

I'm sorry
I'm 26. I own a nice house in a nice area. I own an expensive car with a big V8, my house is full of expensive top-of-the-range gadgets, my fridge is full of nice food and I have plenty of cash left over at the end of the month to spend on nice things.

Am I spoiled? Am I fuck...

I'm on a very good income, doing a job that most blokes would give their right bollock for. The truth is though, the only reason I've got to this point in life is that I've worked my arse off to be here. That includes sacrificing my social life at university to get top marks in my degrees, putting in 80+ hour weeks a couple of years ago in an effort to pull something spectacular out of the bag to be noticed at work and spending all of my time outside of work gaining the further qualifications to get me into the well-paid positions.

I often feel like I've missed out on things, particularly in terms of my social life, but I accept that's the price I have to pay for the better things in life that I now enjoy.

My point is - in all probability, the Range Rover woman has probably worked her arse off too to get where she is, and she's probably made plenty of sacrifices of her own along the way to achieve this. Why do you resent her for this?
( rubberduck should only be used after consulting with your GP, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 20:44, closed)

Or if not her,
then SOMEONE has worked their asses off and been altruistic / under the thumb enough to give her the car.

So it's either someone working their bollock/ovaries off and buying themselves a nice car, or working even harder and buying someone else a car with it.

Well done for working hard, Rubberduck!
( uberdeity Wondered why Owen Lars knew of the term "hell" on, Mon 13 Oct 2008, 10:06, closed)

I am opposed to this
I don't own a car.

I buy all my clothes from charity shops, bar underwear.

I shop in the town centre and carry my shopping home.

I encourage my daughter to walk to school and encourage her friends to do likewise.

I understand that people who can afford to will flit their money away on frivolous rubbish because that's their choice.

I recycle when it makes sense to do so.

I don't appreciate an idealist view of the world which tars everyone with the same brush and makes the world sound like noone appreciates anything. Because I damned well do take the time to appreciate every little thing I have. Because I have to work fucking hard to earn only just enough to survive. And if surviving means spending £7.50 a month so I can glean the slightest happiness by browsing b3ta on my phone every day, so be it.
( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 20:53, closed)

tramp

( spimf ™ is whoever you want him to be, Mon 13 Oct 2008, 14:09, closed)

I'm a fucking well-dressed tramp
I'll have you know :)
( Noeli overtheshoulderboulderholderthingstraplatchboobs, Mon 13 Oct 2008, 20:13, closed)

Does "social cohesion"
mean I'll have to talk to poor people? I won't have it. They'll probably give me TB. (Or is that badgers?)
( crackhouseceilidhband Fuck off back to Mumsnet, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 21:29, closed)

Nah
That's only poor badgers. The rich ones have BUPA health insurance
(Fredz A graveyard of hopes, a dump of ambition, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 21:35, closed)

I'll social
your cohesion.

you love it.

hur hur hur.
(Bazongaloid, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 23:30, closed)

People fought and lived through that war...
So we could have these luxuries and freedoms!

Are you telling me everyone should shove it aside?? Throw away what they strived for and ignore what they did for future generations?

Being less frivolous is a great idea, but saying this is just idiotic and puts down what those people went through.
( vix0r was not Matthew on, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 21:40, closed)

environmental concerns etc aside
the woman can afford and wants a range rover then why the fuck shouldn't she have one.

I resent people implying that because I have been lucky enough to be born when, where and who I am I should not take advantage of the opportunities that those things give to me.

I can say with 100% certainty that if you asked a starving, thirsty person in a developing country their opinion on whether someone in the position of the range rover woman should be turning down the opportunity to do and buy the things she wants, that they would call you the local equivalent of a moronic raving lunatic and have you locked away.

If enjoying the fruits of mankind's advancement and the happy coincidences that led to me being able to enjoy them makes me spoiled then I embrace the label.

Me changing my life is never going to affect those worse off than me in other countries, the power to do that has been and is in the hands of our governments, and they haven't done a fucking thing about it during the prosperous times and they aren't going to do anything about it now.
( Vipros. clever got me this far, then tricky got me in, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 22:29, closed)

eat the kitten
shall we eat the kitten instead ?

imeleon.com/photo/40/sleeping_kitten.html
( hedge_diver, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 23:09, closed)

Yes
they deserve it. Workshy little cunts.
(Bazongaloid, Sun 12 Oct 2008, 23:30, closed)

Isn't the point
That Mrs. Landy could be driving something a bit more economical and still still enjoy all the luxuries motorised travel affords?

Surely she doesn't NEED a Landy, something else would fulfil all the practical needs.

I guess it's just easy to single out the people with the huge symbols of wastefulness rather than levelling the same accusations at everyone - I suspect that the vast majority of us (people in the UK) are guilty of being wasteful on a regular basis. (E.g. driving when we could walk or talk public transport etc.)
(Shippy likes linebreaks and doesn't care what you think, Mon 13 Oct 2008, 0:02, closed)

"fulfill all practical tasks"
not if she lives in the country (properly in the country, not the all-tarmacced "country-lite"!).

If she doesn't leave the city then by all means call it wasteful. You can tell because the 4x4's immaculate. If it's a mess, there's a good chance it's being properly used!

Oh, or maybe she wants to tow things. A nice V8 will tow a trailerful of stuff far far better than a little Fiesta- it actually becomes safer to tow a trailer along a dual carriageway with a decent V8 powered 4x4 that doesn't struggle with the extra half tonne of weight!
( uberdeity Wondered why Owen Lars knew of the term "hell" on, Mon 13 Oct 2008, 10:13, closed)

She could...
Get a Volvo. They are like tanks. Or large BMW or Skoda or Audi or... hmm one of loads of cars.

Agreed though for proper countryside a 4x4 is invaluable.

Maybe they should bring in a test where if your 4x4 is not dirty by so much, you have it taken off you and it is crushed (unless you provide a reciept that you have recently had it washed)
( VandenPlas can't think of anything clever - no change there!, Mon 13 Oct 2008, 13:06, closed)

I say, If you can't carry it home, you don't need it.
really?

i presume you sleep on the floor, cook on an open fire and guests get to sit on straw bales and eat straight out of the pot?
(Halfy By light alone, Mon 13 Oct 2008, 11:57, closed)

Hee hee

This sure rattled a few cages! If you read my post earlier (and the replies) you'll know I'm broadly in agreement with this argument. I dislike the exesses of today's modern western capitalism, and the inevitable 'me-too-ism' of the BRICs (Brazil, Russia, India, China) which is accelerating our descent to environmental disaster 100-fold.

It is the relentless pursuit of growth for its own sake that fuels the mess we're in. I largely blame the media; I have a strong feeling that while all the BBC and Fleet Street journos were sitting around at dinner parties discussing how much their 4-bed semi in Chiswick is now worth, none of the buggers could give a flying toss that a huge section of society were being priced out of the property market. They've used their good luck to buy 2nd properties and buy-to-lets which have chucked petrol on the fire. I'm not so disengenuous as to not realise that house price inflation has let the Grimsdale's survive at a ridiculously high level of luxury over the past couple of decades too. I know that in my case, it wasn't due to relentless hard work, but then again, I work with plenty of people that also don't work hard, but have had an even easier ride than me.

I know people that earn about the same as an MP for a nominal 37 hour week - though more like 30 actual work. They send their kids to private schools as their parents help them out; they have 'gites' or apartments in Europe and jet or drive down to them four times a year; they have horses and three cars and investments and savings. It's not so much that I'm jealous of them - they chose right at uni and have made good choices (unlike me), but I don't think they deserve so much.

So, yes, we are all spoilt. Yes, we all like nice things. But no, we aren't all wasteful, we don't all like what we see around us. Some of us try to do better and some of us despair about the kind of planet and society that we are bequething to our children and grandchildren.

I don't really have any answers, except - to some of you flamers: If you can't think of anything nice to say, don't say it. And to the original poster: Do as I do, not as I say.

Amen.
(Che Grimsdale Best before:, Mon 13 Oct 2008, 12:04, closed)

Surely if that's the norm now
then everyone's not spoilt, only by your outdated standards if anything.
( Captain Wow currently being a cunt in Infamous, Tue 14 Oct 2008, 11:49, closed)

Broadly, I agree with you....but...
..I'd like to say something about "the price of fuel has gone into orbit."

compated to fuel costs per litre...

....bottled water is more expensive, and is a lie - Tap water is the *SAME THING* without a designer label.

... Coke & Pepsi are more expensive, and are demonstably worse for the environment - take a look at how the ingredients are famed and the manufacturing process.

... Beer is more expensive - and is a far greater cause of damage to society and health than petrol will *ever* be.

ergo, fuel is not expensive.
(EffinDoubt is breaking glass on, Wed 15 Oct 2008, 15:35, closed)